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Now Appearing in an Extended Engagement! Join David Robison as he takes you into his world and his daily life of reviving a stand-up comedy career. Prepare for side trips exploring the "art" of salesmanship and business ethics and his experience with Multi-level Marketing. Enjoy some frequent detours describing his observations on life. Read the exploits of this self-proclaimed Renaissance-man and blooming blogger as you go On The Road With Dave.

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Name: David Robison
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On The Road with Dave


Monday, January 28, 2008

Surrogate Blogging

I've started A NEW blog. But, hopefully it won't be mine for very long.

I'm looking at it as a "surrogate blog". I'm just "carrying it" until the mother or in this case; the father, takes over.

If you aren't interested in Multi-level Marketing and more specifically, Amway and Quixtar; then this entry won't make much sense to you...if that's the case, let me suggest you try out the Presidential Calculator.

Now, on to my new blog.

In the realm of Amway and Quixtar-related blogs, there are a regular cast of bloggers representing opinions both pro and con. These blogs are frequented and commented upon by the other bloggers and a semi-regular cast of commenters.

At some of the blogs, the commenters are as well known as the authors of said blogs. Such is the case with "Tex".

Tex is a Quixtar-affiliated Independent Business Owner(IBO) with a propensity to stay focused on one issue regarding the operation of a Quixtar Independent Business.

Tex hates the "tool systems" used by top level Amway and Quixtar distributor leaders to motivate, educate (and yes, profit from) their downline groups of distributors. For that issue, I am in total agreement with Tex.

Aside from that issue, Tex also enjoys a healthy debate with critics of the legitimate businesses operated by other Quixtar Independent Business Owners. Again, I can be in total agreement with Tex on this issue.

I know, I know, you sense a "BUT" coming on...and you'd be correct.

The problem is most recently, that Tex has been banned from nearly all the Quixtar and Amway-related blogs and discussion groups. This includes pro-blogs, con-blogs, and even some Quixtar-company sponsored blogs. If he hasn't been banned; he's being heavily-moderated.

I can speculate on three reasons why this has happened.

1. Tex is prolific in his comments. He writes often. He writes long detailed entries in the "Comments" section. He quotes other commenters in their entirety and then responds point by point. He repeats this process.

This can be a blog author's dream or a nightmare. The dream is the traffic and lively discussion. The nightmare is the constant moderation and possible association with the negative comments volleyed back and forth between Tex and the other commenters.

2. The constant "on point" comments by Tex voicing his "position".

This would be okay, except if the blog author or "thread" author in the discussion group wrote about something entirely different from the subject Tex wants to discuss.

If the author writes about "Tool Abuse"; Tex is there to denigrate the "lying cowardly kingpins" that profit from other IBOs.

If the author writes about a new Quixtar product; Tex is there to denigrate the "lying cowardly kingpins" that profit from other IBOs

If the author writes about taking a vacation; Tex is there to to denigrate the "lying cowardly kingpins" that profit from other IBOs.

3. Tex uses "personal attacks" towards other commenters and blog authors when the topic debate continues on. Although personal attacks are not the best debate tactic, they can be effective; but Tex fails to realize or fails to care that he is commenting in a "closed forum". The blog author or Discussion Group owner is not obligated to let participants insult other commenters or the blog author.

The expression of "Free Speech" only applies to the author. Yes, some authors may allow dissent...but it is not a "right" of the commenter. Tex has the proclivity to tax his "right" on other's forums.

And so, Tex has worn the patience of many a blog author and forum owner quite thin. It has been suggested to Tex on many, many occasions to "start your own blog". Tex has been hesitant to take this advice for fear that a blog of his own would not receive the traffic that the other blogs receive and thus his message would not be heard.

I disagree with Tex.

And so, I started "Tex's Quixtar Blog".

I have set it up. I have posted two entries from other blog authors on why Tex was banned and their opinion of Tex. I have now begun to post "comments" made by Tex at some of these blogs.

I am more than willing to give Tex access to HIS blog and let him begin to spread his message about Quixtar, about Amway, about Motivational Organizations and their tools that they sell; and about WHATEVER Tex wants to write.

"On The Road" readers, I urge you to visit Tex's New Blog...let him see that you are willing to read what he writes, that you are willing to comment at HIS blog, and that he can exercise his Free Speech rights under his OWN banner.

Tex? Howboutit? Your own blog.

Labels: , ,

75 Comments:

Anonymous Tex said...

Dave,

First of all, thanks for setting up "my" blog, although I should note YOU are the Blog Administrator and can delete comments at your discretion.

You got a number of points wrong/inaccurate.

1. I do NOT hate the "tool systems", I hate the high prices that result in MA$$IVE secret profits for the lying cowardly "kingpins". I find no issue with the CONTENT of the tools, recognizing I will not agreement 100% with every other human being on this planet.

2. Although banned from many blogs (some multiple times, as they "let" me back on prior to being "banned" yet again). I have NEVER been banned from a corporate blog, unless you count the IBOAI one, which is obviously run by the lying cowardly "kingpins". Nor am I "heavily moderated" by any corporate blogs, in fact, some posters have accused A/Q of allowing my pointed comments and not allowing them to respond in kind.

3. Your speculative reasons for me being "banned" are indeed speculation.
I can speculate on three reasons why this has happened. My "prolific comments" are intended to educate the prospects and IBO's of the tool scam. In the blog world, the way to do this is to stay "on top" in the discussion (visible to the casual reader). The reason I quote others is to ensure no inferior point they make goes "unpunished". I challenge you to name an issue with this business, and chances are VERY good I can trace it to being directly or indirectly related to the tool scam. I ONLY counter-attack. I learned this lesson early in my "blogging life" long ago. I tried for 2-3 months or so to be "nice", and not hit back. However, I realized the only way to get my point across was to hit back. Shoot me with a pea-shooter, out comes my 16" guns. If you want a closed discussion (closed to other ideas), you SHOULD apply "Free Speech" only to the author. If you want the truth to come out, you allow ALL points of view, and allow facts and logic to prevail.

Hopefully you will respond to these clarifications/corrections, Dave.

10:04 PM  
Anonymous Tex said...

Dave,

First of all, thanks for setting up "my" blog, although I should note YOU are the Blog Administrator and can delete comments at your discretion.

You got a number of points wrong/inaccurate.

1. I do NOT hate the "tool systems", I hate the high prices that result in MA$$IVE secret profits for the lying cowardly "kingpins". I find no issue with the CONTENT of the tools, recognizing I will not agreement 100% with every other human being on this planet.

2. Although banned from many blogs (some multiple times, as they "let" me back on prior to being "banned" yet again). I have NEVER been banned from a corporate blog, unless you count the IBOAI one, which is obviously run by the lying cowardly "kingpins". Nor am I "heavily moderated" by any corporate blogs, in fact, some posters have accused A/Q of allowing my pointed comments and not allowing them to respond in kind.

3. Your speculative reasons for me being "banned" are indeed speculation.
I can speculate on three reasons why this has happened. My "prolific comments" are intended to educate the prospects and IBO's of the tool scam. In the blog world, the way to do this is to stay "on top" in the discussion (visible to the casual reader). The reason I quote others is to ensure no inferior point they make goes "unpunished". I challenge you to name an issue with this business, and chances are VERY good I can trace it to being directly or indirectly related to the tool scam. I ONLY counter-attack. I learned this lesson early in my "blogging life" long ago. I tried for 2-3 months or so to be "nice", and not hit back. However, I realized the only way to get my point across was to hit back. Shoot me with a pea-shooter, out comes my 16" guns. If you want a closed discussion (closed to other ideas), you SHOULD apply "Free Speech" only to the author. If you want the truth to come out, you allow ALL points of view, and allow facts and logic to prevail.

Hopefully you will respond to these clarifications/corrections, Dave.

10:04 PM  
Blogger David Robison said...

Tex, consider your corrections noted. So, do you want admind status at "Tex's Blog"?

10:12 PM  
Anonymous Tex said...

Perhaps. What's involved in that?

10:29 PM  
Blogger David Robison said...

Tex...send me a private email with a valid email address...and you can be posting on your own blog in 24 hours

11:01 PM  
Anonymous Tex said...

What I meant by "what's involved" is what is involved in terms of time and effort to keep the blog going?

I just answered a couple of posts regarding me masturbating to the site jc made "famous", and am not interested in "policing" a blog.

I would prefer to stay with blogs others run, especially ones that have credibility, such as the A/Q corporate blogs.

6:41 AM  
Anonymous Tex said...

To add to the above, the masturbating crack probably came from one of my blogging "friends", such as pcj, rockette, or anna/Gina. They aren't even man/woman enough to use their own blogging identity.

9:07 AM  
Anonymous Anna28 said...

LOL...It wasn't me Tex. Take my word for it. As for PCJ, Rocket or whomever else, I don't know. I would definately use my own blogging identity.

More importantly...you should take on the blog Dave has started. Really, no joking, no sarcasim. I think you would like it. There would definately be traffic. Give it a shot, you have nothing to lose.

12:37 PM  
Anonymous Tex said...

anna,

You didn't read my reasons for not being interested, did you?

12:54 PM  
Anonymous Porkchopjim said...

Wasn't me who made the whacking the noodle crack about Tex - where is that, by the way?

Addressing the 3 Texcuses:

1. Tex is convinced that the tools prevented his business from being bigger than it was (1000PV max during 15 years): his downline couldn't afford the tools and make a profit.

Tex can't seem to explain why his downline left him (not just once) to remain with the tools scam under a different LOS...but away from Tex. (Texcuse: that's the power of the 'tools'. TexProblem: Tex begged downline to stay (and even coerced) and would allow them to remain on 'tools' - they still left Tex).

Facts and logic might lead some to reach the conclusion that the problem wasn't the tools.

2. Tex is indeed heavily moderated on the corp. blogs, some more so than others. A tight leash is kept on Beth's blog. It's only the media ones that he's allowed the most room - but it's not complete freedom. He's been admonished and censored more than once even on that one. So, that's completely false.

3. Tex is convinced that because it took him 12 years to learn that upline makes money from tools, every other IBO is as internet challenged as he is - so he spams every site that will let him. Unfortunately, "Tools Scam" and 'Lying cowardly kingpins' are as much detail as you'll get with Tex as the source. Insults soon follow.

Facts and logic have very little to do with Tex's windmill fight.

Tex has no interest in having his own blog. First, he does not have the skills. Second, there would be only one post: Tools scam. Third, if he couldn't exploit the popularity of others, he'd have no chance.

He doesn't like those facts and logic - which would lead to only Tex posting comments and he'd be stuck with his very own 'soap opera' site.

2:16 PM  
Blogger rocket said...

I didn't make that crack Tex.

I'm anonymous anyways, so why would I use a fake anonymous handle?

Just as I thought though. Nothing at all to add to the conversation, you need to ride everyone else's coattails.

4:06 PM  
Anonymous Tex said...

pcj,

1. The low level "cycling" of IBO's is very common, not just my experience. I didn't "coerce" them to do anything, I gave them a choice to join us, keep doing what they were doing, or do something else. I've told you that many times before, you liar.

2. How would you know I'm "heavily moderated", you're not part of the review process, you idiot. I've always said I push the envelope on all sites, just to find out where the boundaries are. I've said THAT many times before too, you flaming idiot. And that's not an insult to you, it's an insult to flaming idiots.

3. I never claimed to be more or less challenged than others, but if most prospects/IBO's knew the facts, there wouldn't be many IBO's or sponsoring going on. I've provided plenty of details, and have been promoting thequixtarbook.com, which has recently added more details to the picture.

Are you still breathing perfectly good air? What a waste.

5:17 PM  
Anonymous Tex said...

rockette,

Who cares if you made the comment, you're still an idiot.

And stupid enough to be an anomymous-anonymous.

Just as I thought though. Nothing at all to add to the conversation, you need to ride everyone else's coattails.

5:19 PM  
Blogger David Robison said...

3. Tex uses "personal attacks" towards other commenters and blog authors when the topic debate continues on.

Tex says, "I've said THAT many times before too, you flaming idiot. And that's not an insult to you, it's an insult to flaming idiots.

Are you still breathing perfectly good air? What a waste"


Example of one of my points. But, hey, free speech and all that.

6:33 PM  
Blogger rocket said...

Not an original thought in your head. You even have to borrow people's insults to make yourself feel good.

Obviously you can't run a blog. You can't think for yourself.

6:38 PM  
Anonymous Tex said...

So, you give pcj a pass on his post and focus on my return message? At least you're consistent with the other blog owners.

8:43 PM  
Blogger David Robison said...

Pcj says.."Tex is convinced that because it took him 12 years to learn that upline makes money from tools, every other IBO is as internet challenged as he is"

Calling Tex Internet Challenged could be a personal attack...but in my defense of giving him a pass...my comment is not about what he said but it goes to a point made in the ORIGINAL blog entry...as a discussion continues it was stated you(Tex) resort to personal attacks.

9:44 PM  
Anonymous Tex said...

Correction, as stated above: I ONLY counter-attack. I learned this lesson early in my "blogging life" long ago. I tried for 2-3 months or so to be "nice", and not hit back. However, I realized the only way to get my point across was to hit back. Shoot me with a pea-shooter, out comes my 16" guns.

5:10 AM  
Anonymous Porkchopjim said...

Correction, as stated above: I ONLY counter-attack...Shoot me with a pea-shooter, out comes my 16" guns.

But - if you read early on, here's Tex doing anything but a counter-attack:

To add to the above, the masturbating crack probably came from one of my blogging "friends", such as pcj, rockette, or anna/Gina. They aren't even man/woman enough to use their own blogging identity.

So, there's another free example! They're not hard to find.

Now, for the 16" guns:

1. The low level "cycling" of IBO's is very common, not just my experience. I didn't "coerce" them to do anything, I gave them a choice to join us, keep doing what they were doing, or do something else. I've told you that many times before, you liar.

Cycling normally means dropping out and getting replaced. Having your downline flee from you while still trying to stay in the business isn't 'cycling' - so, that's wrong. Coercion: when they requested a LOS change, you refused because that would be taking PV from you. You can’t blame the tools for downline leaving you when they stayed on tools after they left.

2. How would you know I'm "heavily moderated", you're not part of the review process, you idiot. I've always said I push the envelope on all sites, just to find out where the boundaries are.

Right – Beth doesn’t moderate you. Nor does Amway Anna. “Pushing the envelope” – I guess – includes multiple personal attacks that have little to do with getting the ‘tools scam’ information out. So while you admit you find the boundaries, you deny being moderated to determine those boundaries.

3. I never claimed to be more or less challenged than others, but if most prospects/IBO's knew the facts, there wouldn't be many IBO's or sponsoring going on. I've provided plenty of details, and have been promoting thequixtarbook.com

Well, we know that there aren’t many IBOs and sponsoring in your group. The folks in your area must know all the facts. You never claimed to be challenged – didn’t have to, it’s evident. Let’s go back to taking credit for other peoples actions: promoting the Quixtar book.

9:43 AM  
Anonymous Tex said...

pcj,

That was one of your stupidest posts in a long time.

What was my masturbation an example of? All 3 of you have called me many names, misrepresented the truth, and have been wrong and lied. I don't have to wait for any of you 3 to call me a name before continuing my barrage.

1. There was MUCH more cycling over the years than having a single IBO exercise their choice to go somewhere else. I refused to sign the transfer form because it is my choice to sign it or not. I was hoping time would bring them to see the truth, but it didn't work out that way. Such is life, such is business.

2. I didn't say I wasn't moderated, I said I am moderated like everyone else, and others have accused A/Q of allowing some of my strong comments and not theirs. I simply understand where the boundaries are for each blog, because I have tested the boundaries for each one. I also value the credibility of the corporate blogs more than the others, so I am more careful not to get "banned".

3. Really? You know this? What's the numbers then?

I didn't take credit for the Quixtarbook.com, just did some free "advertising" for the author. How you can twist promoting a free book versus taking credit for the book is beyond reasonable, which is par for the course for your comments.

I also had a nice 2-3 hour telephone conversation with him, and found out a lot of more interesting stuff.

10:21 AM  
Anonymous Tex said...

pcj,

That was one of your stupidest posts in a long time.

What was my masturbation an example of? All 3 of you have called me many names, misrepresented the truth, and have been wrong and lied. I don't have to wait for any of you 3 to call me a name before continuing my barrage.

1. There was MUCH more cycling over the years than having a single IBO exercise their choice to go somewhere else. I refused to sign the transfer form because it is my choice to sign it or not. I was hoping time would bring them to see the truth, but it didn't work out that way. Such is life, such is business.

2. I didn't say I wasn't moderated, I said I am moderated like everyone else, and others have accused A/Q of allowing some of my strong comments and not theirs. I simply understand where the boundaries are for each blog, because I have tested the boundaries for each one. I also value the credibility of the corporate blogs more than the others, so I am more careful not to get "banned".

3. Really? You know this? What's the numbers then?

I didn't take credit for the Quixtarbook.com, just did some free "advertising" for the author. How you can twist promoting a free book versus taking credit for the book is beyond reasonable, which is par for the course for your comments.

I also had a nice 2-3 hour telephone conversation with him, and found out a lot of more interesting stuff.

8:57 PM  
Anonymous Porkchopjim said...

What was my masturbation an example of?

Hey, at least you admit doing it. Whatever floats your boat.

Otherwise, it was an example of you lying about 'only counter-attacking.' And I know you have to tell yourself that we're all liars and wrong - but once again, facts and logic don't show that to be the truth.

I refused to sign the transfer form because it is my choice to sign it or not. I was hoping time would bring them to see the truth, but it didn't work out that way.

Thus, coercion. They saw the truth: if they were going to be successful in the business, they had to get away from you. What other truth were they going to see? One of the options you 'gave' them was to stay with you and also stay on the tools.

You call me a liar, but once again, your story supports me more than it does you.

I didn't say I wasn't moderated...

And you wasted everyone's time asking me how I knew you were moderated. TexDodge.

I also value the credibility of the corporate blogs more than the others, so I am more careful not to get "banned".

Untrue. If you worried about getting your message out, you'd be on more popular sites. Your only worry is your credibility - which you think being allowed to post on the corp. sites gives you some.

Really? You know this? What's the numbers then?

Nowhere near 10 or 1000PV - your peak. Remember - you can't build your business until you fix the tools scam.

I didn't take credit for the Quixtarbook.com, just did some free "advertising" for the author.

And that book is one BIG advertisemnet. Again, it's an attempt to gain yourself some credibility through someone else's effort. As usual.

10:46 AM  
Anonymous Tex said...

pcj,

Just because you don't call me a name in every single post means I won't continue to call you names. And you, my "friend", are a complete idiot.

When they have a free choice whether to stay or go, it CANNOT be coersion. THAT'S why you are a liar.

Another idiotic point, EVERYONE is moderated on those sites. No single individual is more "heavily" moderated than anyone else. Idiot.

More "popular" sites are soap operas, full of folks who bring up masturbating, etc. You suggest I trade such trash with a moderated, corporate blog? Hardly. Idiot.

In other words, you don't know the numbers.

Advertising the tool scam is a bad thing?

Too bad jc took down his old site, but I guess we can pick up where we left off over there. Plus, I saved the portions I'm interested in, so it's no big deal to me.

11:54 AM  
Anonymous Porkchopjim said...

Ah - so you were just plain old making things up when you said you only 'counter-attack.'

When they have a free choice whether to stay or go, it CANNOT be coersion. THAT'S why you are a liar.

They DIDN'T have a 'free choice':

I refused to sign the transfer form because it is my choice to sign it or not.

So, go ahead and call me a liar. At least you're being consistent this time around.

Contradict yourself, re-write history, and just plain old make things up so you can try to call me a liar. How's that working for you? Seeing as it's all right here and completely destroys your attempt?

In other words, you don't know the numbers.

I know the google rankings - and since A/Q was stopped from trying to manipulate those - show that your sites are so low on the list that no one is likely to find them. But, hey, that's good for A/Q's credibility: hiding you.

Advertising the tool scam is a bad thing?

No. But that's not what it is, nor what I was talking about. Shocked you can't figure that out.

So, continue calling me an idiot while you contradict yourself (i.e. - lie), make things up, and prove that you are here only to gain some smidgen of self-importance that you have been unable to find anywhere else. Which is both sad and funny at the same time.

12:18 PM  
Anonymous Porkchopjim said...

Oh, and I'm not taking up anymore of Dave's graciousness just so you can masturbate. Help yourself!

12:21 PM  
Anonymous Tex said...

I wasn't making anything up, I just said I may hit back several times after you try to swing at me first. It's called beating the verbal snot out of someone.

We both were operating under the same rules. Having choice is not the same thing as doing whatever you want whenever you want to do it. You still have to play by the rules. You get confused easily, don't you? I call you a liar because you lie.

You know the google rankings of the size of my group? You just answered the "confused easily" question, above with a big YES.

What would you call it then, "genius"?

I am here primarily to expose the tool scam, and have to deal with idiots like you along the way.

1:52 PM  
Blogger rocket said...

The following comment is written with respect Tex, and I hope you take the time to actually process it instead of looking for a way to cut and paste an insult out of it. Everyone but you is most likely of the same opinion.

The tool scam was exposed long before you knew it existed.

You are here primarily to continue on with your adrenal masturbation because it seemingly gives your life some sort of purpose.

Quite frankly, I think you can't talk about anything other than the tool scam because you think that is THE only reason you have not been successful at Amway/Quixtar.

You just aren't willing to accept the fact that it may be a poor opportunity with or without the tool scam.

Anyone who bothers to look on line knows about the tools scam within minutes...bar none.

You are hardly the only source of information. Names like Dateline NBC, Quixtar Blog, and Amway's own site clearly spells out that some leaders make more from tools than they do Amway income.

Food for thought.

5:10 PM  
Anonymous Tex said...

rockette,

The following message is written with disrespect rockette, and I hope you take it for what it is, a verbal "bitch slap" up side your head. If you want to apologize for starting the name calling AND commit to not only knocking off the BS, but also tell others to knock it off when they do it, I will declare a truce. If you don't want to agree to ALL of the above, keep standing by for more "incoming". Your choice, rockette.

The tool scam was exposed in 1983, but what has happened to shut it down in the last 25 years?

Respect? Adrenal masturbation? You're an idiot. I've told you why I'm here, at other blogs, and doing other activities. To shut down the tool scam. As I said before, you confuse process and results.

The tool scam is THE primary reason literally millions of former and current Distributors/IBO's have not had the success they thought they would.

You just don't understand the negative significance the tool scam has had on this business.

If "anyone" knows, why are there still so many IBO's, why are there so many new IBO's?
I never claimed to be the only source of information, but I am one of the most accurate and comprehensive sources.

Glad I'm not eating your "food for thought", it's not very filling. Empty mind, empty calories.

5:38 PM  
Blogger rocket said...

Wasn't asking for a truce.

You made me laugh with your "I am one of the most accurate and comprehensive sources." statement.

But you are right about "Empty mind, empty calories."

Got me there. I won't argue your mind is empty.

6:16 PM  
Anonymous Joecool said...

Ah, yes, the tools scam. Yes, the tools are often the reason for big financial losses, particularly if an IBO was dedicated to the system. However, even without the tools, the compensation plan is of a pyramidal nature.

That means that a few guys on the top make the most bucks while the guys on the bottom do the work and move the volume. Break down the 6-4-2 plan. Which layers of IBOs actually make decent money?

Yes, making tools cheaper will decrease the severity of IBO losses but will not result in more people going diamond, etc. Tex is living proof of that.

6:46 PM  
Anonymous Tex said...

rockette,

Then you obviously aren't getting a truce, you flaming idiot.

Clearly, the meaning was YOUR mind is empty. Nice try at hijacking my brilliant comment for your own use, but it didn't work, you stupid Canuck.

7:12 PM  
Anonymous Tex said...

This post has been removed by a blog administrator.

7:16 PM  
Blogger rocket said...

This post has been removed by a blog administrator.

7:35 PM  
Anonymous Joecool said...

This post has been removed by a blog administrator.

7:40 PM  
Anonymous Joecool said...

This post has been removed by a blog administrator.

7:41 PM  
Anonymous Tex said...

jc,

Virtually ANY company compensation plan is "of a pyramidal nature". The difference is most corporate types can never make it to the top, whereas ANY IBO can.

Your 6-4-2 examples ignores the time variable. Over time, the "2's" onThat means that a few guys on the bottom become the "4's", who later become the "6's".

How would you know if I'm living proof of "making tools cheaper will decrease the severity of IBO losses but will not result in more people going diamond, etc."?

8:42 PM  
Anonymous Joecool said...

Tex said: Virtually ANY company compensation plan is "of a pyramidal nature". The difference is most corporate types can never make it to the top, whereas ANY IBO can.

Joe says: But in a company, you apply for your position and you get compensated based on your negotiated salary.

Tex said: Your 6-4-2 examples ignores the time variable. Over time, the "2's" on That means that a few guys on the bottom become the "4's", who later become the "6's".

Joe says: It's not my 6-4-2. It's a QMO thing. Strawman argument. Presenters of this plan don't mention those who drop out, or talk about IBOs who are active for 15 years who are still '2 (like you).

Tex said: How would you know if I'm living proof of "making tools cheaper will decrease the severity of IBO losses but will not result in more people going diamond, etc."?

Joe says: You aren't a diamond, none of your downline are diamond. That's a zero percent achievement rate. You've been active 15 years - three times longer than the "plan". What more do I need?

12:01 PM  
Anonymous Anna28 said...

Why is it whenever there is a good old fashioned heated debate with Tex around, comments get deleted? Here is my suggestion Tex, if what you say is true and you just want to expose the tools scam for what it is and you feel you are continuosly attacked first, then be the bigger person and respond without name calling or insults. If you realy want people to believe that you are a creditable source regarding the tools, then that would be the route to take. No one can take anyone as creditable with comments that are continuously made.

1:18 PM  
Anonymous Tex said...

jc,

What's your point? I know how company compensation works. You don't think those who have done more work and sponsored more people should be paid more?

Yes, it is the 6-4-2 example YOU used to illustrate an idea. You still didn't address the income over time aspect. When was the last time you watched an NFL game and the announcers talked about all the kids who dropped out of peewee football, Junior High, High School, and college? You can apply that same concept with virtually ANY profession.

Why is Diamond your ONLY measure of success?

anna,

As I said on another thread, stop breathing my oxygen. All you are is an ignorant pest.

12:10 PM  
Anonymous Anna28 said...

As I have said in another thread...show us all where I attacked you first. You state clearly that you only respond with name calling when you are called names...so show us where exactly in this..."Why is it whenever there is a good old fashioned heated debate with Tex around, comments get deleted? Here is my suggestion Tex, if what you say is true and you just want to expose the tools scam for what it is and you feel you are continuosly attacked first, then be the bigger person and respond without name calling or insults. If you realy want people to believe that you are a creditable source regarding the tools, then that would be the route to take. No one can take anyone as creditable with comments that are continuously made."...I called you any kind of name?

Not only that, but I encourage you to support your claim that I am 1)ignorant or 2) a pest. Are you calling me, owner of a $2.1 million company ignorant based on your outstanding success in Q*, or because you have no other way to communicate?

4:54 PM  
Anonymous Tex said...

anna,

I don't care about you or your limited knowledge of this business.

You could be as rich as Bill Gates as far as I am concerned, and STILL not understand the tool scam.

If you don't criticize others who make masturbation and other off topic comments, you are as bad as those who made them.

7:15 AM  
Anonymous Joecool said...

Tex said: Why is Diamond your ONLY measure of success?

Joe says: What is the outcome if you sponsor 6 who sponsor 4 who sponsor 2 and your 6 frontline do the same?

That's right - you go diamond. The 6-4-2 is a plan to go diamond. Of course that's not everyone's goal. But for CORE IBOs, that's generally the goal.

11:31 AM  
Anonymous Tex said...

6-4-2 is an illustration to show how the money works. Each IBO can decide how big they want it to get.

If all they want to do is go Platinum, then 6-4-2 does it for them. However, if even a single person in half of their 6 legs goes Platinum as well, they are Emeralds.

I'll bet Bob Kuechenberg (http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2008/02/04/72_dolphins_werent_swimming_in_cash/) is kicking himself in the butt every morning he wakes up, he had Tim Foley in his downline.

11:39 AM  
Anonymous joecool said...

tex said: 6-4-2 is an illustration to show how the money works.

Joe says: Yep, a small majority profit while the masses make little or nothing. Add in the tools expenses and it's worse.

12:28 PM  
Anonymous Tex said...

As usual, you TOTALLY neglect:

1. The change in income over time, and

2. Explain why those who haven't done much should be paid much.

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong about showing the 6-4-2 model, except that the vast majority of the profit is really based on the tool scam, which not only puts a lot of money in the uplines' pockets as they lie about it, it removes the same money from the downlines' pockets, resulting in a net loss model until high levels, such as Platinum, are reached.

Other than THAT, you're right.

1:32 PM  
Anonymous Jocket said...

Joecool, the fact that you refer to a 6-4-2 plan shows just how long it's been since you've been "active". Your LOA hasn't shown those numbers in over a decade.

1:52 AM  
Anonymous Tex said...

jocket,

The exact model used to show how the numbers work makes little difference, although I would be intersted in what wwdb is showing these days.

The fact remains most of the money for the upline comes from the tools, so the model used to show the Quixtar numbers is a secondary factor, and not a very close second at that.

7:45 AM  
Anonymous Joecool said...

6-4-2, or 9-4-2, doesn't matter. The majority still make little or nothing and the problem gets worse if you are dedicated to tools.

6:49 PM  
Anonymous Tex said...

6-4-2, or 9-4-2, doesn't matter. The majority still make little or nothing, because they have DONE little or nothing, and the problem gets worse if you are dedicated to overpriced tools.

8:49 PM  
Anonymous Jocket said...

joecool,

Considering that your former LOA doesn't show a 6-4-2 nor a 9-4-2 TODAY, and doesn't explain the Amway/Quixtar business opportunity in any kinds of those terms (those models), you lack any authority to speak with ANY credibility of what is happening TODAY in the world of Amway/Quixtar and in your former LOA.

7:06 PM  
Anonymous Tex said...

jocket,

What IS wwdb showing these days?

7:28 PM  
Anonymous Jocket said...

Wouldn't YOU like to know Tex. LOL!
Let’s just say that the changes you are seeing at the Corp started with a couple of the rebel Diamonds in that LOA a few years ago.
One statement made three years ago at a major function by a Triple Diamond was, “We don’t deserve to make $500,000 if we can’t help the brand new person make $500. That is just plain pathetic.”
Not well received by some of his fellow Diamonds at the time. But little by little the others have caught on.
And the head of that LOA has been showing a “Retail” Plan at every major function since its inception in the early 80s, but was considered “old school” by the other Diamonds—until now.
So all the support that LOA is offering IBOs is now focused on what others now know as the First Circle.
All support is being studied, questioned, streamlined, transformed, to fit the needs of today, rather than the needs of the 1980s. What worked, or what was needed (like flying half-way across the country for a seminar) 30 years ago, is archaic with new technology like web conferencing and webcasts. Listening to a CD is not only old technology, but who has the time or the attention span to listen to 72 minutes? Also, most IBOs do not need that kind of training when they first get going. Most don’t need it until the Platinum level.
Other LOAs, if they want to survive, are going to have to make this same transformation. So this LOA will seem like all the other LOAs in a few years (or visa versa). That LOA is nothing special—they just caught on a little quicker for the need to change than the rest of the bunch.

2:20 AM  
Anonymous Tex said...

Jocket,

I would like to know.

Which LOA are you talking about?

Why the secrecy?

Do they have a web site to find more information?

10:26 AM  
Anonymous Jocket said...

I'm talking about the LOA you are asking about, mr. cool's former one.

11:06 AM  
Anonymous Joecool said...

tex, in other words, they now teach new IBOs better stuff, and it's ok that they ripped them off for the past 20 years or so.

Is that what you're saying
jokeette?

12:54 PM  
Anonymous Anna28 said...

Tex says..."If you don't criticize others who make masturbation and other off topic comments, you are as bad as those who made them."

So am I to understand that in order to be seen as a civil person who does not engage in such types of name calling or whatever, that I must openly criticize those who do? You want me to chastise those who make such comments when in reality you make the same manner of comments with little or no provocation? I am unclear as to what you are trying to get at here or why it is you think you are justified at implying I should die. Help me out Tex, clearly I am trying to understand....if you don't want me to then so be it.

1:23 PM  
Anonymous Tex said...

jocket,

You can't answer a question straight, can you?

Is it wwdb, and how do we get more information on this LOA?

jc,

I think that's the reason for not answering the questions. His statements are not supportable with facts, and he resorts to dodging and not answering many of the questions.

anna,

Yes. Yes (you will see changes in my behavior if you commit to the first "yes"). Clear enough?

2:23 PM  
Anonymous Jocket said...

Joecool,

Let me ask you, do you believe that the leadership of your former LOA “ripped” you off by either:

a) giving you ineffective and outdated methods/information on how to build a profitable Amway/Quixtar business
or
b) by selling tools and functions and pocketing huge ma$$ive profits from them?

Tex,
Do you consider the wwdb diamonds to be “lying cowardly kingpins”?

4:35 PM  
Anonymous Joecool said...

Jocket,

I was told by my upline "trust me", don't bother reading the BSMAA, save your time and sign the bottom. I have your best interest.

I was told that tols are optional, but so is success. I was told that nobody have ever succeeded without tools, but so and so WWDB diamond was a multi millionaire and thought it was a vital to use tools, but if I knew better, then go for it.

I was told nobody made a cent from tools. The profits all went back to the IBOs to help make functions more affordable.

I was told that in addition to standing order, I "needed" 5-7 extra tapes a week to succeed.(Can't listen to the same tape every day right?)

Frankly, the tools taught me nothing about how to profit from running my business.

We were taught "don't need to retail", just buy from yourself.

Sounds like I got ripped off looking in retrospect .

Sure you can use the mantra that tools are optional, but "conmen" are illegal but they get you to do things voluntarily don't they?

5:06 PM  
Anonymous Jocket said...

joecool,

So does that mean you pick option letter a)?

Who was your Sponsor, your Platinum, and Your Diamond?

5:15 PM  
Anonymous Joecool said...

Jocket: A and B

What difference does it make who my diamond was? Some of this stuff was taught at major functions so you can figure out the rest for yourself.

5:27 PM  
Anonymous Jocket said...

joecool,
“What difference does it make?”

Um, a lot.

And I love how you say, "Some of this stuff" More and more generalizations. Probably the "stuff" were the things that worked for people in the 80s--being CORE. But teaching people to lie? Taught at a major function? Really?

You were in the biz less than a year,
over a decade ago,
and you had someone (I don't know who 'cause you aren't saying) lie to you.
And now, b/c, what? you want to feel like you belong, you've reached out over the Internet, with other poor souls, and have decided, rather than NAME NAMES, you slam
all IBOs in WW,
all IBOs in every other LOA,
and the entire Quixtar/Amway Corp.

Don’t you think that’s a little…extreme, unethical, misleading?

5:47 PM  
Anonymous Joecool said...

Ok Jocket, I know you're posturing but answer me a few questions.

What level are you at in the business? Are you profitable?
How many frontline have you sponsored? (If you won't answer any of my questions, don't bother asking me anymore questions - fair enough?)

I sat in a major function at the Rose Garden. Some of the diamonds on stage said they don't profit from tools. Some of them taught that you don't have to sell anything, just buy from yourself.

Guess what? I communicate with current IBOs pretty often. Some of them WWDB. Some of them still do call in and pickup!! What's up with that? I still hear from current IBOs in WWDB and there's evidence that a lot of what was taught when I was active is still taught.

Maybe there's some talk about some IBOs being able to make money in tools now - but nobody has a written agreement about how you qualify and how much you get. Still no transparency.

So they don't teach 6-4-2? big deal, 6-4-2 didn't work and apparently whatever new trick they teach doesn't work. WWDB isn't breakng out hoards of new diamonds.

BTW, I sat in a Howie and Susan Danzik emerald function. They later went diamond. I heard their tapes. Why does Howie's WWDB website lie and say he went diamond as a single?

6:03 PM  
Anonymous Joecool said...

http://antoverlord.wordpress.com/2007/07/27/amwayquixtar-now-officially-a-cult/

Testimony from a former WWDB platinum. Broke and in debt, all thanks to the "system".

7:03 PM  
Anonymous Jocket said...

I am a platinum. I am profitable. And I have no debt other than my home. I am not broke.
I have sponsored 60+ people. Most have quit. If I started today, I’d show the plan maybe eight of those sixty. Ya live and learn.
I was taught just like you—sponsor everyone, even those who just want to use the products, and retail only if you need to in order to pay for the system.
It’s been a wacky trip for sure.
I’ve seen a lot of life in a short period of time, so I’ve had some discernment of what was real, who to believe, what was hyperbole when I’d go to a function or listen to a CD. I found the humor in things. And I have had some grace for a lot of these old farts who don’t have a clue about what’s going on today and are just teaching what worked for them a gazillion years ago.
Maybe it helped that my sponsor warned me about everything. And is real. And who I’d hang with in or out of the biz. I was warned about Bill Britt—thank God he’s not at our FEDs anymore. I just found a way to laugh at him and his nutty comments.
And I went to functions I found valuable, and I bought CDs I found valuable.And I left the rest that I didn’t. Most recent example: I didn’t order this week’s S/O ‘cause I’m not a fan of the speaker. I’ve never let anyone tell me what I can and cannot do. And I don’t tell my guys what they can and can’t do.
It’s my biz and I take responsibility for my failures so that I can also take credit for my success.
Rather than quit and then bitch and complain online, I’ve chosen (with other far-out-there IBOs) to push the limits and do some wacky different things to make this biz work. And now it’s paying off. I’d be a fool to quit now.
Joecool: “Some of them still do call in and pickup!! What's up with that? I still hear from current IBOs in WWDB and there's evidence that a lot of what was taught when I was active is still taught.”
That’s why I ask who your Diamond was. I have not had call-in/pickup in three years. Not all of WW do things the same. And that’s why I kind of feel sorry for some of these IBOs when I know their Diamonds are teaching them stuff that hasn’t worked in decades.
But, they’re coming around. At MAX last weekend, one of the major Diamonds gave an intense, in your face talk to all the Platinums and above because people (other Diamonds) were acting like he was all about retailing (First Circle) and not about sponsoring and paying the magical “20 bonus checks”.
And he said, “I’m all for paying 20 bonus checks, I just don’t want to replace 18 of them next year! Do you?”
It was a pretty tense talk, but needed.
Joecool, “BTW, I sat in a Howie and Susan Danzik emerald function. They later went diamond. I heard their tapes. Why does Howie's WWDB website lie and say he went diamond as a single?”
You’ve been around that long? That was like 15 years ago. I haven’t been around that long. To answer your question: I don’t know. Guess it was easier than to say, “Howie built his biz all by himself while his wife was having an affair with her tennis instructor.” Maybe he wanted to spare her the embarrassment?
So, in closing, I owe it to my fellow IBOs to get off this computer and go Ruby and help my guys make some more cash.
Selling a product is a whole lot easier than selling the biz opportunity to someone who has never used the products.
I can jabber jaw all I want. But I need to become the proof that is needed for this new generation of IBOs.
Good luck to ya joecool. And try to stay off the porn sites. Really can mess you up, if you’re not messed up already.

8:00 PM  
Anonymous Joecool said...

Jocket said: Not all of WW do things the same

Joe says: Then it's not like a franchise and how can it be a proven system if not all groups do things the same way?

Jocket, my diamond was Harimoto.

Jocket said: And I went to functions I found valuable, and I bought CDs I found valuable

Joe says: How would you know which ones were valuable or not?

Jocket said: Howie built his biz all by himself while his wife was having an affair with her tennis instructor.”

Joe says: Is that so? That's not what I heard.

Also, I wasn't around 15 years ago. I was active in 1996 -1997.

About 6-8 months ago I saw someone in my area carrying an Amway box. I started asking if some people still to pick up and found that some WWDB groups indeed still call in and pick up.

BTW, thanks for what looks like an honest answer. If more IBOs would respond as you did, more brain storming could occur instead of name calling.

10:19 PM  
Anonymous Tex said...

Jocket,

I assume ALL LOS/LOA tool profiteers to be lying cowardly "kingpins", unless and until they prove they are not.

11:43 PM  
Anonymous Tex said...

jocket,

You still haven't said how to get more information regarding your LOA.

11:53 PM  
Anonymous Jocket said...

Tex,
So guilty until proven innocent, huh?

The new pres (from ww) of the IBOIA Board is the one who designed the new QBI money, getting the Corp to cough up the serious dough for ALL levels.

And WW is the one, for a whole year, showed how customer volume could increase significantly with the free-shipping offer of $75 or over orders. The increase was significant enough that Quixtar made that deal for ALL IBOs.

And the head of WW (R.P.) has been showing a "Retail" Plan, how to make over a $100K without ever having to sponsor someone for YEARS.
And now there is an actual Retail Plan that WW teaches (not just lonely Ron up there on stage) in place of how to make even more money without sponsoring anyone.

So explain to me how WW can be making tons of money on tools and functions if there isn't new blood being sponsored?

There's a lot you don't know, Tex. And because of your attitude, it's gonna stay that way.

10:17 AM  
Anonymous Jocket said...

Joecool,
“Then it's not like a franchise and how can it be a proven system if not all groups do things the same way?”

Here’s the deal: Ya got an organization that’s been around awhile. And some IBOs are stubborn, freaked out, scared, stupid, whatever, and don’t want to change. Some Diamonds with older groups in WW lost 40% of their biz when the name changed to Quixtar. There was just too much change for them.

I think now with the change to Amway Global and this whole First Circle focus, they are trying not to have what happened in 1999 happen again.

So being rigid and saying YOU MUST DO IT THIS WAY OR YOU WILL FAIL just won’t work.

And some Diamonds are more honest than others about the fact that they don’t have a clue what do to. Like that Diamond at MAX also said, “Look, we are asking you all to do something that we (meaning the Diamonds, I think he meant) haven’t done. Ron has been beating it in to our heads for years and I will be the first to admit that I didn’t listen.”
And some Diamonds are still holding on to old stupid ways that don’t work—In the same weekend, during a marketing session, a Diamond said, “When we were going Diamond, I didn’t care what things cost. If there was something at the store for ten dollars less than something from my business, I always bought from my business because that item at the store wasn’t going to get me free.”

Stupid. And I guarantee that if that Diamond continues to buck reality, well then, see ya wouldn’t wanna be ya.

“my diamond was Harimoto.”

Ah, yes, “Today’s the day!” In 96-97, he would’ve been a fairly new diamond, wouldn’t he? So still heavily plugged in to the warrior Wolgie. I love Wolgie’s passion. He had a separate secret training website for a while. It’s not up anymore. But definitely an attitude take-no-prisioners mentality. But the new Diamonds in WW, the Eatons, are downline from Wolgie. And that dude is a serious warrior. But, I also know (even though they don’t teach it from stage) they are doing some serious retailing in their group.

“How would you know which ones were valuable or not?”

Experience. Example, if there’s a regional in my town with that Diamond willing to buy a product for 10 bucks more, then I ain’t going. Not just for that reason, but I know this Diamond. How they think. And I’m not interested. Simple as that. I’ve spent too much time (and money) being “loyal”. If I really want to be loyal, then I need to be successful. And I’m not gonna be successful listening to that nonsense.

I was taught to “Vote with my dollars.” Both with the products AND WITH WHAT WW OFFERED. So that’s what I’m doing.

Now, of course I’ll be all politically correct and not say WHY I’m not going. Showing unity is really important. And I’m learning, ever so slowly, how to be unified without feeling like I’m compromising. It’s a delicate balance. But I understand. It’s like raising kids. It would be a bad deal for the wife to dis her husband in front of the kids by not agreeing with him right in front of them. Does that mean that she shouldn’t voice her opinion? Nope. Just means that there’s a time, place, and PROPER ATTITUDE, on how to do it.

“Is that so? That's not what I heard.”

Dude. I don’t give a shit why they divorced. I don’t give a shit why Dean’s wife took off, or Radford’s or Brooks’. Whatever. I can’t keep up with all the drama. People are human, they screw up, they make mistakes. All that stuff is between them and God. I’ve got enough of my own baggage to deal with to be focusing on everyone else’s.

“I was active in 1996 -1997.”

Wasn’t Howie already with T by then? At least engaged.

“About 6-8 months ago I saw someone in my area carrying an Amway box. I started asking if some people still to pick up and found that some WWDB groups indeed still call in and pick up.”

An “Amway” box? Did it really say, “Amway”? Huh, haven’t seen one of those yet. Now that there is no longer a case discount, the only “savings” is in the shipping if you do Pick-Up. But with the cost of gas AND ALL THE TIME INVOLVED, screw it.

Also, the tools are now ordered and sent directly to the Platinums from WW, not their Upline Diamonds. Nice! That was a pain in the ass for all involved, including the Diamonds.

At some point, hopefully soon, they’ll let all IBOs order directly from WW. They do that now with ordering tickets. And hopefully talks will be available for download rather than CDs. So that would leave books (which, I just tell people to get them from Amazon.com, it’s a pain in the ass—and expensive and takes longer—for me to ship to them).

“BTW, thanks for what looks like an honest answer. If more IBOs would respond as you did, more brain storming could occur instead of name calling.”

I can’t even be honest with my fellow WW IBOs!
I just gotta do it, do it the way that is going to work, and be the example. Because I can talk until I’m blue in the face about what’s the smart way to do things. No one’s going to listen unless I have to results to back it up.

I think this biz is more than viable. I think there's a lot of cash to be made. It just took forever and a day for some people to wake up.

I know your experience in the biz is real joecool. I had similar stuff happen to me. We just chose different paths in response to those situations.

I chose to keep the relationships in tact (it's that importance of unity, again). I chose to have an attitude of trying to make this thing work, to try different things, willing to go out on a limb, willing to have my hand slapped, voicing my opinions and observations (to those who actually had some power to get some change happening) without whining and blaming.

Have I been frustrated, felt alone, and pissed off? YES! All I can say is that I thank God for giving me a wacked sense of humor. When it's gotten bad, I've laughed my way out of it.

It's been a long haul, but I think it's been worth it. The things that are now happening with the Corp. and with WW I am 100% behind.

Now, off the computer I go..happy Friday.

11:51 AM  
Anonymous Joecool said...

Jocket said: I know your experience in the biz is real joecool. I had similar stuff happen to me.

Joe says: You're the only one I have spoken to that experienced some of the same stuff that I did.

The reason why I started blogging was to warn IBOs and/or potential IBOs about abusive upline/sponsors like mine.

I actually don't care about Danzik's divorce, but I saw many diamonds talk about a ZERO percent divorce rate in WWDB. That makes it an issue.

I do however disagree with you about this being a good business (overall) for the majority of people who get involved.

12:11 PM  
Anonymous Tex said...

That's right, guilty until proven innocent. Where is the information that backs up your claims? Is there a web site where your words can be verified?

I'm tired of someone's upline being the "hero". This time it's QBI money. Got some PROOF it was him? If not, all you have is words, yadda, yadda, yadda.

I think there is much more proof the retail/free shipping concept was demonstrated by eFinity, as a reward for being accredited. More hot air.

Good for Ron. I'm not a big fan of having a huge retail business, but leave that option up to every IBO.

So explain to me how WW can be making tons of money on tools and functions if there isn't new blood being sponsored? ---- First of all, is this a true statement? Have you discontinued audios, books, functions, voice mail, web sites, etc? If not, how much do these cost? Then I will be able to explain it to you.

There's a lot I do know, jocket. And because of my attitude, it's gonna spread to a lot more prospects and IBO's down the road.

12:33 PM  
Anonymous Tex said...

jc,

I've experienced most of the same stuff you experienced, I've told you this MANY times, and many others on various blogs have said the same.

One difference: I've never heard ZERO divorce rate, but a much lower one. The typical statement is the general population is about 50%, A/Q is 2%. I have no idea if that is accurate.

Many things don't work out for the majority of people, but that doesn't mean you give up on the tool scam.

12:37 PM  
Anonymous Jocket said...

Tex,
B.H. is not my upline. If you're so "in" with the Corp., ask THEM who came up with the QBI plan. Get the scoop directly from them.

Regarding free shipping: are you denying the WW had free shipping for their customers for an entire year before the rest of Quixtar?

Regarding a huge retail business: You are missing the point. He had to go so far to the other extreme, because everyone, in his words, were playing "Big shot Quixtar" and only going after "business builders" The idea is a BALANCED business. Duh.

Regarding giving you all the $$ for tools:
1) you already know all of them
2) you are missing the point. Just because they are offered does not mean that they are being (or should be) utilized by every IBO. This whole, BE 100% PLUGGED IN OR YOUR A LOSER concept is going bye-bye.

Tex, there are IBOs who are just plain nuts. I have personally sponsored some of them! To have to beg them NOT to go to a major function, beg them NOT to order standing order, beg them NOT to continue their voicemail, beg them NOT to renew their websites...

And offering my help to MAKE SOME MONEY regardless of what WW tools they are using.

No, they'd rather LOOK like they're doing something than actually do anything.

Kind of like you, Tex. Your philosophy of changing this biz by sitting on your ass all day in front of the computer and criticizing and blaming is SO inspiring. (not).

You have NO basis of authority, since you are not out in the field doing anything. You are living in a bubble.

Come on Marine Man, is THAT how you fight a war? Sitting down?

You don't even know who the enemy is. LOL! No wonder you are so lost.

No mas. See ya.

1:12 PM  
Anonymous Tex said...

jocket,

Who is B.H.?

Sure, I'll ask Quixtar who came up with the QBI plan, don't know if they will answer though.

It depends, when did WW have free customer shipping?

I didn't miss the point, I just didn't want to leave the wrong impression that you gave. Duh.

In other words, your upline makes a LOT more money on tools than Quixtar, and you prefer to dodge the question.

I prefer to think my presence is partially responsible for stopping the tool scam.

How do you know whether I'm "in the field" doing anything?

Marine Man? How did you come up with that? Many aspects of modern war are waged sitting down. Just ask the people near the high level al qaeda leader who got nailed by a drone.

The enemy is very clear. The lying cowardly "kingpins".

See ya, Roberto.

3:29 PM  

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