The Anti-MLM Confederacy

Have a seat, this one’s gonna be long.

Yesterday, I made a comparison of Anti-MLMers to pro-MLMers.

Here was my premise.

On the Internet, there are several websites and forums; and a dozen or so blogs, that have a negative slant toward MLMs and specifically Quixtar.

In that circle of sites, there are a few recurring names and “players” that have gained respect among the anti-MLM crowd.

I said, in effect, that these “players” were kind of like “Diamonds” or high-ranking MLMers. And new converts to the “Anti-MLM” crowd, used their sites and referral links to the sites like an MLMer would use a “tape of the week”.

Instead of a MLMer telling his “downline”, “go listen to this tape”… the anti-MLMer would say, “to answer that question, go to this link”

It was my observation that the anti-MLMer crowd was developing their own organization of “anti’s”, or IBOs in reverse.

Privately, I was contacted by someone, who thought my premise was “irresponsible”.

If I grasped anything he proceeded to tell me, this is what I came away with.

In any setting or group, two sides of a issue will develop. Comparisons can be made. A political internet group will form into Democrats and Republicans, as an example.
That’s okay.

But if one side refers to the other as Communist or Fascist, then the discussion and sharing of ideas falters. Placing unfair labels on a group is wrong, or in the case of anti-MLMers, merely labeling them as a “group” or “organization” in and of itself is wrong.

So, I thought about what the person told me.

Here are my conclusions.

1) There are particular people and sites on the Internet with an agenda to bring down MLM as we know it, and Quixtar in particular.

2) These sites will attract disgruntled, frustrated, ex-MLMers.

3) These ex-MLMers might look at each other and gain respect from each other’s views.

4) These sites, by shear ranking on Search Engines will also attract people doing MLM research.

5)Discussions, both “pro” and “con” will take place, and certain decisions will be made.

BUT! (the inevitable “but”)

A pro-MLM company-specific organization has more cohesion, their efforts are united. There may be different techniques within the organization, but their aim and purpose is the same.

Such as the United States of America. Both Democrats and Republicans love their country. They may disagree on budget constraints, or the war effort, but their common goal is for “the good of the country.”

Those that described themselves as “anti-MLM” or even “anti-Quixtar” are more like the Confederate States of America, rather than IBO-wannabes-in-reverse.

They have a general “dislike”, or cause; but like the CSA, they are more like individual states fighting. Each state in the Confederacy, had particular concerns, printed their own money, worked on individual trade agreements. They were not all “united” in the ultimate “cause”.

That, ultimately led to their downfall.

These critical websites and those that frequent them, also stand little to gain in the downfall of MLM. Possible personal satisfaction may be their only reward. This excludes those sites, that may criticize a specific MLM company, because they favor another company for their own financial gain.

However, my “financial gain” may be affected by what an “anti-site” may make a “prospect” decide. That colored how I felt towards these sites, and why I grouped them together. I think I realize now, that any decision made at these sites by someone, without them having a conversation with me or a reputable IBO, is a “battle” I would not have won anyway, nor even “fought” in.

So, I won’t lump all “anti-MLMers” into one group anymore. I, myself, generally dislike it, when someone says, “all IBOs are alike”.

I constantly stand on my “soapbox” and preach the individuality of an IBO. I plead that people don’t assume something about my personality, because I chose MLM as a way to make some extra money.

So, I must continue to approach each “anti-MLMer” at their individual level. It would have been easier to lump them all together in one group. To have an “us” versus “them”. Maybe some of them do have that “mindset”, but not all.

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11 Responses to The Anti-MLM Confederacy

  1. MBroderick says:

    Dave,

    I agree with this as I’ve been seeing this on the anti-mlm sites. Lord knows they can group US IBO’s together and call us “bots”, but if you tried to group them together or tried to convince them otherwise- they call it “tapespeak”. The ironic thing is they give the very same type of canned “responses” that we are blamed for giving.
    I’ve come to one conclusion about this business that the anti mlmers know they what they can’t win with.

    I forgot who said this, but it’s a phrase I end all meetings with.

    “Those who think they can will, Those who think they can’t won’t”

  2. Anonymous says:

    And those that will not deceive others won’t be the subject of ridicule and contempt

    Rocket

  3. Anonymous says:

    Most people on what you percieve to be “anti-MLM” sites are, at worst, ambivalent to the concept – including myself.

    Make no mistake: “negatives” are most often simply anti-fraud, anti-deceit, and anti-coercion.

    I apologize in advance if I, as a “negative”, have a detrimental influence on ethical business people. The problem is that I have rarely met people that were prosecuting an MLM business in an ethical and transparent fashion. You have nothing to fear from me if you are that kind of person.

    I will not apologize for demanding that promoters and recruiters of all MLM hold themselves to a reasonable ethical standard; that is to say that MLM recruiters do not misrepresent the actual nature, income potential, and effort requirements of their opportunity.

    I suggest that if anyone takes issue with the above, that you should take a closer look at your opportunity and how you are promoting it. If you cannot say to yourself, with total self-honesty and conviction, that you are dealing with prospects and associates as you would want to be OUTSIDE of your MLM business, then the chances are rather high that you are contributing to the MLM image problem.

  4. Loser says:

    Yes Dave, stereo typing is easy, but it’s not true, either this way or that way. We are all individuals.

    FWIW, here are my $0.02. I am not fighting any battle, I couldn’t care less if Quixtar make trillian dollars or go bankrupt. I don’t care. If any IBO don’t label me as a ‘broke loser’, I respect them, no matter what they do. However, if they say “Give it up you broke loser, get a life” what should I call them? You tell me the word other than “brainwashed”

    Here is what I am doing:

    – Sharing my experience about a venture.
    – Having fun.

    Thats ALL.

    Why? Quixtar does quite stupid stuff. BSMAA to Google bombing to Cult practices among many LOS. And many IBOs have called me or many ppl “broke loser” and other emotional childish stuff. It’s fun to watch 🙂 It’s good to hear funny stuff like that.

    So here is a deal. Whatever you do in life, you WILL be criticized. magnitude may vary. If you can handle that criticism, you know what you are doing 🙂 If not…….

    If I’m not very secure about something, i’ll get quite emotional about it. If I am, I could handle it much better.

    So I’m not at battle with any one. I’m giving my opinion. I do so about computer related sh*t, Politics, Relegion, RIAA, Quixtar, Sports, Tv……….Thats ALL. I quote imdb for movies as they have good research. I quote scott or qblog as they have good research. None of them became my upline. Do they 😉

  5. MBroderick says:

    Mo,

    Personally I NEVER call peeps “broke losers” WHY? Cause I was one and I am still one (to an extent). A persons financial statement DOESN’T reflet what that person’s personality is. I agree with you 100% that people need to get off the name calling childish behavior. If your going to resort to name calling, how are you going to get people to listen to you?

  6. Roger says:

    Dave, I agree with alot of your sentiment. There are those who are bots and there those who are not. I at one time, was a bot. I did not think for an answer, I did not emote answers, I responded by script. I was told, taught, and spread the same things without thinking…. it went against my better judgement.
    When I worked as a PC repair tech, I did not blindly repeat the lies that were supposed to scare people into buying bigger systems, more warranty, or optional components. I spoke from knowledge and experience. Yes, an extended warranty with screen damage is worth getting on a laptop that travels around… on a low-end desktop that never moves…. no.

    Mike, “Those that think they can… will, and those that think they can’t…won’t.” …. well, thousands of IBOs get sucked into the QMOs monthly thinking they can be a Diamond…where are they? They didn’t all fail to “negative nancy”, “stinkin’ thinkin”, and lack of effort. Where are my former Diamonds, and Direct now? I can find nothing of them anymore.

    Dave, and others like him, I have no issue with, at the center core issue I have no problem with Quixtar ideology. It’s the complacency of the company to allow the QMOs to bastardize their salesforce for their own greed that bothers me. Yes, I still think the Quixtar bonus structure is not properly structured on sales and relies on recruitment to make money, the prices are not truly competitive, and the rules and regulations compendium put a strangle hold upon the IBO that almost hands you over to the QMO “tool” organizations… which I consider the true threat and problem.

    If Dave (or others) can make a few bucks using Quixtar for their product supplier without the exploitation of people the way the QMOs do, more power to them.

    Roger, Husband of An Orrin Woodward Team Brainwashee

  7. MBroderick says:

    Roger,

    I’d like for you to point out in the compenduim where it shows that ‘the rules and regulations compendium put a strangle hold upon the IBO that almost hands you over to the QMO “tool” organizations’. PLEASE do not refer to “the “amquix” site. That’s as bad as me referring you to Quixtarresponse.com

    If you can find it in Quixtar’s official compendium anywhere, I’ll offer $1,000 to your favorite charity.

  8. Roger says:

    Mike,

    If you want to see those exact words in the compendium, guess you’d never pay up… if you want references to restrictions that I feel take the “Independent” out of IBO…. stand by. Also interesting is just like over at QBlog’s site, you only address one point of my post..any comments on the rest?

    But, to answer your question:

    Not being able to setup a website to sell anything that you purchase from Quixtar… or have a booth at a fair, or even a table at a bar… yours or otherwise, without jumping through hoops with Quixta, is one. You are basically a sub-contractor, a retailer, not an employee…. why is the compendium 100 pages?

    I can’t open PDF files on this PC, but here are listings from my other one since I don’t feel like retyping everything from above, so I’ll list section and heading. I’ve read the compendium many times now. I won’t even begin to address the inconsistencies with what the compendium states vs what the various QMOs teach. I’ll save that for a post over on WAQ. Dave, I apologize in advance for the length of what follows.

    Page D-3 : “Partnerships are discouraged.”
    Yet later on they try and say spouses are held to the rules and regs even if they never signed up!

    Page D-5 : “Price Comparison Literature”
    It’s not enough that they tell you what guidelines to follow (which is good) they require you to submit to them for approval. Could be why no IBO ever puts out a comparison price sheet? I’ve compared name-brand cases of food my wife has ordered to the local store prices, not similar but SAME items… the case prices from Quixtar were higher than the same quantity bought individually locally.

    Page D-15 :
    Rule 4.2 “Cross-Group Buying or Selling”
    Why can’t you sell to anyone who offers you money?

    Rule 4.3 : “Retail Stores”
    Can not sell them, you also can not allow them to be SEEN.

    Page D-16
    Rule 4.3.2 : (No Heading)
    You are not allowed to promote sales via any advertising that is not a direct personal communication.

    Page D-17
    Rule 4.14 : “Other Selling Activities”
    Among several subsections it prohibits selling anything from any other business to your fellow IBOs that you did not personally register…. except unless of course it is BSM… which you can sell to anyone below you… cause the IBOAI made sure of that.

    Page D-19
    Rule 4.24 : “Fund-Raising”
    As a sub-contractor, non-employee, “independent” business owner, I should be able to buy 10 cases of XS and sell them at cost to my local Boy Scout troop if I wanted to for them to use in a fund-raiser.

    Page D-24
    Rule 6.4 : “6-Month Inactivity”
    Rule 6.4.3 : “2-Year Inactivity”
    If you quit, you quit.

    page D-25
    Rules 6.5.x “Non-compete”
    IF you quit cause you find something better, you can’t offer it around? Funny, the QMO’s teach you to raid your former/current employer.

    Page D-37
    Rule 9.5 : “Booth Displays”
    Alrady covered that one.

    page D-38
    Rule 9.x and up.
    Sure looks like they want to amke it hard for you to advertise you are selling Quixtar. Why?

    Page D-39
    Rule 11.x “Dispute Resolution Procedures”
    Isn’t that whole process just catering to the QMOs need to keep their abuses out of the court system? Forced BSMAAa and all that.
    {Probably why the deipute section is one of the alrgest in the compendium.

    I may have strayed a little more than I wanted, but the general gist of the rules go way beyond the “do do anything illegal”, it is very prohibitive of doing many of the things a truly independent business would do with the product they sell.

    Which leaves you at the hands of the QMOs who teach “self-consumption” as the method of recruitment, minimize retailing, and force-feed of “tools” that have marginal if any benefit to the IBO’s business as much as it is to the QMO’s real business of tools.

    make donation to U.S. Marine Corps Reserve Toys for Tots program… you can email the scanm of the receipt.

    regards,

    Roger

  9. MBroderick says:

    Roger, you still have not answered my question about ‘rules and regulations compendium put a strangle hold upon the IBO that almost hands you over to the QMO “tool” organizations’. Again I wan’t you to quote word for word from the compendium.Not from Qblog or the amquix site, but from the official compendium.

    I want you to show me in the official compendium where it states that IBO’s can’t setup a website?

    It’s actually listed in the compendium that you can have a website but only prior to Quixtar’s approval.

    I also want you to point out in the official compendium where IBO’s are required to sell BSM’s.

    In order to get the donation to your charity, the rules have been clearly stated. The rules are word for word from the official Quixtar compendium. Nothing more, nothing less.

  10. Roger says:

    You, have not answered any of my questions in any thread yet other than the ones asking if I was ever one of the ones you accused of bad-mouthing you…which I haven’t.

    First, I did not quote from anywhere such as Amquix…man you must really have a bug about Scott Larsen, or QBlog… did you even read my post? I gave you page numbers, sections, and titles of parts of the compendium which which give why “I think…the rules and regulations compendium put a strangle hold upon the IBO that almost hands you over to the QMO ‘tool’ organizations.”
    In such that the business as restricted by Quixtar “almost hands” you to the likes of the QMOs. Address the sections I listed and tell me how they are not restictive of business, and that they are not restrictive of an “independent” sub-contractor who can’t even put up a sign saying “I sell XS”.

    You sure like to follow the basic tools rule of deflecting discussion and answering questions with questions. You asked me why I thought what I thought, I told you… then you ignore it and again cry “AmQuix” and make outlandish mnisquotes such as claiming I said IBOs are “required to sell BSMs”. I said nothing of the sort. I said the rules restrict your “other selling” of products or services to other IBOs that you did NOT personally sponsor. BSMs are conveniently excluded cause the IBOAI is run by the Tools selling Diamonds… whos “other selling” is their true primary business.

    Your attitude/behavior insults me. Your “rules” are hardly clear. Can you not read? I think not the way you mis-quote and redirect/deflect. Can’t find the compendium, I did from Quixtar’s home page. Again, the tools are instructing you to tell me how I think, based upon the information I have. Are you addressing the information I have and are able to change/correct my understanding? No. you deflect.

    For someone so uptight about others not willing to listen to the “pro” side when they want to learn, you sure are passing up a golden opportunity. I am not df at QBlog.
    You’ve been to WAQ, I don’t think you’ve activated your account yet, but you know pretty well where I stand if you’ve read around the site.

    Dave, you are an active IBO… can you or can you not, create a website that just sits out there to sell SA-8, using your own shopping cart software or sales collection software to where you receive orders and then order the product shipped to the customer?
    You can have a website, it must be passworded if it presents anything to do with the “opportunity”, yet Quixtar shows the plan and promotes the opportunuity without passwording on their site.
    Read rule 4.3.2. You can not use a website to “solicit the sale of products” to members or clients unless they are already members or clients.

    Respectfully, (as I always try to be)

    Roger

  11. Hey Roger,

    Dave here…

    I’m kinda liking all these comments. makes me feel like I am in Qblog’s leauge.

    To answer your question,

    “Dave, you are an active IBO… can you or can you not, create a website that just sits out there to sell SA-8, using your own shopping cart software or sales collection software to where you receive orders and then order the product shipped to the customer?”

    The answer is no, BUT, it’s not needed. Why pay for a site, when I can send someone to the Quixtar site myself?

    Roger further says, “You can have a website, it must be passworded if it presents anything to do with the “opportunity”, yet Quixtar shows the plan and promotes the opportunuity without passwording on their site.

    Read rule 4.3.2. You can not use a website to “solicit the sale of products” to members or clients unless they are already members or clients.”

    I can solicit Quixtar’s site all day long to non members and non clients, in order to sign them up.

    On the issue of the rules you listed; you do list restrictions and rules, true…but none of those restrictions in my mind “hands me over to The AMOs”

    In fact Rule 14 that you quote regarding selling things downline unless personally sponsored INCLUDES BSMs.

    Any IBO who steps up to the plate to provide training for their downline can exclude tapes being sold to their second line and further downline. As I have done.

    The other rules you quote, as I said limit some of my sales activities, but I also have other ways to carry out these sales that are also covered by the rules.

    Thats including Advertising and price comparison sheets. Those IBOs in the old Home Shopping Delivered program had their own price comparison sheets, if I remember correctly.

    On partnerships being discouraged, that covers “legal” partnerships such as LLC, not married spouses.

    I admit Mikey’s rules are vauge, but your answers do not “deliver” the IBO into the hands of the AMOs.

    As official arbiter here at OTRWD, I think the bet was ill-conceived, and should be called off; however, I am all for any of my readers sending a donation to Toys For Tots.

    😀

    Dave

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